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Real Estate Home > Projects > Bangalore Projects > Sobha Clovelly - Uttarahalli - Bangalore
₹1.86 Cr - ₹5.16 Cr
Possession on: Sep 2019
Status: Ready to Move
22% 1.63 220 Reviews Claim this business

Sobha Developers - Bangalore

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Project Details of Sobha Clovelly, Uttarahalli, Bangalore

Location and Highlights

1, Subramanya Pura Road, Gowdanapalya, Uttarahalli, Hobli, Bengaluru 560061, KA

Highlights
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Last Updated on Dec 20, 2024

Reviews on Sobha Clovelly, Uttarahalli, Bangalore

Summary
Dont trust anything Sobha personnel say
Dec 21, 2009 03:59 PM Read

Having stayed in Bangalore for 5 years, I hold Sobha in high esteem as to its quality of deliverables & the professionalism it demonstrates.

Hence whren Sobha launched its project in Pune, I was rather keen to take a look & buy an apartment there.

In the course of the discussion, as it happens, I dealt with their marketing manager & head GM Sales, Mr kariappa, (I think western region). The discussion went well. I came forward a couple of steps & so did they. I was finally waiting for the initial formalities to be completed & from no where this bolt hit me. The guys called me up & said that Bangalore office has not approved the deal.

What the hell! How on earth can someone as senior as GM negotiate the deal & then the HO reject it. Why in first place did the GM gave me that deal? It sounds so unprofessional.

Never expected such an interaction from a builder who has pan India presence. If the initial dealing is so unprofessional, not sure what is in store once one signs the deal & is awaiting delivery of the apartment.

I have decided to cancel this deal & not do any further negotiations with them
Just booked an apartment with Sobha
Sep 11, 2009 11:27 PM Read

I just booked an apartment at Sobha hill view(kanakpura road). Before buying I spent quite some time going through the blogs and discussions. This resulted in me having a low expectation from them. But till now( a weeks experience with them) has been good.

Why I booked their apartment?

1) Pricing - For this project their pricing is quite attractive. now. Its 1000/sqft less than Mantri Tranquil. They dont have any extra charges for higher floors.

2) Quality - I have stayed in Mantri residency and in L&T south city. Starting from tiles to bathroom doors, I found Sobha has better quality.

3) Construction Status- This project is mostly done and I could see clearly what I will get for the money I am paying.

Interaction with their marketing team(i talked to a person called Pradeep) was good( I think this is any way expected).

I tried calling their CRM(Creative Reasoning and manipulation?) team to get some details. Strange enough they called me back and give me the required details.

I think its too early to pass any judgement from me on them but still thought of sharing the experiance.
Sobha Developer - Full of Cheats & Fraud
Sep 11, 2009 08:50 AM Read

Buying a house in Sobha was one of the major mistake. We never took the feedback from our friends and went in for Sobha. We signed a cost agreement and after 20 months of delay they have totally turned around the cost sheet. I signed the contract for total cost of apartment at 60 Lakh.

Sobha collected 58 Lakh till 10 months back and now they have sent me a revised cost sheet of 70 Lakh. If I dont agree to their 70 Lakh terms, my 58 Lakh is gone with nothing on my hand. Its daylight robbery and cheating.

Do not go for any Sobha apartment if you are not getting handover NEXT DAY.These guys a white collar crooks and cheats. Search for them on Facebook and other blogs before investing. The developer is in a mess - employees are leaving them, their project quality is going down, they are in a financial mess, last but not the least the company is on verge of bankruptcy.

YOUR RATING ON

Sobha Clovelly - Uttarahalli - Bangalore
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Edited Review.
Aug 18, 2009 04:53 PM Read

It has been 15 years now and I would to update this review - not as a complement to Sobha builders, but to my society and apt complex as a whole as it has came up since. My original dealings with Sobha were stressful and unsatisfactory, but I have come to learn, they are far from being the worse among the builders/developers in Bangalore. It could have been a lot worse.

My experience as an owner and resident at Sobha has been quite satisfactory. There were originally some nauseating defects left in the construction by the builders but I have got them addressed since by my own efforts. Some of the good things the builders did was that the 1. design of flats were pretty good, 2. they have planted a whole lot of trees, 3. spacious parking spaces. The clubhouse is a mess though and the swimming pool is a constant drag on the budget of the apt due to constant requirement of repairs due to defects left by the builder.

I will recommend Sobha overall because there are not many better options available in Bangalore.

Original Review

I own a Sobha flat. Sobha flats look beautiful and they haven't fallen down - yet. That's why I went with them. That's the good part. The bad part is:

1> They use horrible plumbing and electrical material. They leave wide gaps between the tiles. Anything that can be replaced with cheap material without changing the looks from outside - they will.

2> They cheat and mislead their customers on the sales agreements with fine prints and levy false charges.

3> For customer service they employ people who occasionally take your phone call - and try to be your shrimp instead of taking down your complaint.

4> They will not be there when you need them. They will leave one soul to maintain 150 odd apartments in the name of "maintenance agreement". And you will never hear back from that one bloke unless you chase him down like a maniac.

5> They are way too expensive.

For the amount of money they charge - its just not worth it. The process of handing over was stressful and the realization was sharp that I had paid a premium price to buy a lot of pain. It was a mistake to buy from Sobha.
Sobha Developers - biggest crooks
Aug 10, 2009 12:28 PM Read

I was stupid enough to fall for the Sobha brandname and book a flat in one of their HSR properties. This is what I got in return:



  1. It's 16 months past their committed delivery date and still no signs of handover



  2. There is no access road to the property. The 40 ft road that was marketed as access turns out to be pieces of land owned by different individuals who have filed cases of encroachment against SDL. One of them filed a case 4 yrs back and won it recently and has now fenced off his land thereby rendering the apts almost inaccessible. SDL knew about this for at least 4 yrs but still went on with the sale of apts hiding this litigation from customers. When some customers found about this through RTI, SDL flatly denied at first. When pressed further, they lied saying it is about some "other" stretch of land, whoch is NOT part of the access road. It has been 3 months since this road was fenced off and SDL has not been able to arrive at any solution.



  3. As per CDP 2015 which was released in 2005, a 30-m road is supposed to run through the property cutting it into 2 pieces. SDL kept customers completely in the dark about this. It was only when some local villagers put up some banners in protest that we, the customers came to know about it. Even then, SDL first lied saying it was the act of some local miscreants trying to extract money. Now, the entire issue has come in the open. SDL, not only refuses to come to any solution - they are trying to pass the buck onto customers saying it is our problem. Strangely, even today if you call their marketing posing as a prospective customer, they will say that there is "no issue" with any CDP road.



  4. Charges have been hiked by 150% for BWSSB and KEB. SDL says they are not liable to show receipts to customers as it is not "standard industry practice". They have levied an additional 20k for solar lighting to all customers citing a 2006 govt order while most customers purchased the flats well after that. An independent evaluation shows that they are making 6x profit on cost/watt. Service tax refunds are not paid back to customers - instead we are being told to take this up with the govt directly.



  5. A major architectural blunder renders 3 blocks inaccessible from the ground floor level. Residents are expected to go to the basement and enter the blocks. Now, they are trying to make up by putting some iron staircase(remember factories) at the back side.



  6. They have not paid compensation for the delay to any customer who have made even the slightest modification like changing a tile, fitting a bathtub or a switch(for which Sobha charged exorbitantly). To those, who did not make any changes(probably only 10% of the owners), they held back compenstation for 69 days citing reasons like Rajkumar's death, rains in Oct 2005, sand strike of 2006 - events that took place well before most people booked their flats. Wonder why they left out Indira Gandhi's murder, 1993 blasts, Godhra riots, .





And the list goes on. Last but not the least, they shout at customers, misbehave with them and have no shame or decency. Their customer service folks never pick up the phones, seldom respond to emails.

So friends, this is the true picture of the city's premier builder - arrogant, unethical and full of fraudulent practices. I made the worst decision of my life by going with them. Please don't go down the same path. If my post dissuades even one person from investing with SDL, I would consider to have done some service to mankind!
Enriching experience with Sobha Developers
Jun 15, 2009 05:22 PM Read

I thought that I also need to share my experience with you all. I stay in Sobha Onyx, at Agara Junction, near to Sarjapur road junction. Its almost five and half years that I have completed staying here and I must say that the experience has been very nice even though I had to bear the one year delay in the project. The rooms are spacious and most of the intricate details had been though of except for the landscaping which requires improvement.

There could have been more landscape lights outside, in the landscape area. I had not had any major complaints till date and same is the case with my neighbours. We are all very happy with the way this building has been standing for the last five years and require low maintenance cost. The minor complaints were registered with customer care cell and were promptly carried out by the maintenance team.

These days it is slightly uncomfortable due to the flyover works being carried out in the vicinity. I would definitely recommend Sobha homes to my friends since I am satisfied with my living at my apartment in Onyx. Iam happy that one of my relatives has invested in another Sobha property in kanakapura road.
Sobha Rose
May 26, 2009 04:37 PM Read

I couldnt disagree more with the blogs written here. I went to see the Sobha Rose property, and it is beautiful in the true sense of word.

I am not buying this from the builder, but the owner hasnt registered for it yet so I would be the first owner. It is ready to move in as of right now.

I also spoke to some neighbors when I went there. They have the best clubhouse I have come across in a long time....facilities like TT, Billiards etc. Also, the swimming pool is best in the class. Landscaping is beautiful!

When I am trying to buy a house, this property gives the best look and feel. I must've seen some 30 projects in Bangalore, but nothing came close to Sobha Rose. The issues spoken about here are common issues with all builders, and not just specific to Sobha. The delay in possession is a very general problem.

I am very happy with my decision of going ahead with a Sobha property, and will pick it up this week itself!

Cheers!

Neha (Shinara)
Sobha Developers - My Experience
May 22, 2009 10:32 AM Read

I dont agree with the below blogs on Sobha.

I have recently shifted to Bangalore from Noida and was keen on purchasing my first property here.In the process of buying a property in Bangalore, I visited a large number of estates of prominent builders in Bangalore.While doing so I happened to drop in to a friends house at Sobha Malachite in Jakkur. I was delighted to see that the quality of construction, finishes and the layout of the estate was very good compared to any other I had seen.

Looking at the overall architecture and the quality of construction, I am willing to compromise on the delay part, which is a common phenomenon in this industry.I checked their projects in Bangalore and found them appealing and up to the standards.

I feel Sobha Iris is one of their best projects and after consulting with my friends and family have booked one unit.
Sobha disappoints
May 16, 2009 02:57 PM Read

I had booked a flat with Sobha for their reputation. I already own a flat built by a lesser known builder. I know the pain of dealing with builders and getting the job done. But I must say my experience with Sobha has been very very bad.I feel like having made a big mistake by entrusting them with my hard earned money!

They have all the bad things that you may encounter while dealing with builders. And they charge a hefty PREMIUM for it. They have delayed my project by 1.5 yrs as everyone including the lesser known builder is struggling with the liquidity (And I thought Sobha was big). OF course they are smart enough not to pay any money to the customers for the delay. On the contrary they are prompt in charging interest if your payments are delayed by a single day.

Simple stuff like keeping track of changes requested by the customer is made a mess of by the staff. And they want you to accept the poor quality work. They have hidden facts and manipulated the terms.Stay away from paying premium for poor quality , unprofessional work!
SOBHA NAHIN DETA HAIN
May 08, 2009 02:54 PM Read

I made the mistake of buying a flat in SOBHA PRIMROSE.The cheating habits come as a package with the flat.Maybe if one reads the fine print in the agreement, one would find a clause which states that the customer can be cheated to any degree at the discretion of SOBHA.

They installed SOLAR HEATERS only for the 9th floor buyers at 60, 000/-, while the rest were not forced to buy the same.

The best of solar heaters doesn't cost too very much.The damages to the walls etc were pointed out but never corrected.The quality of doors and windows was absolutely disgusting.Luckily I found a buyer, otherwise I had already filed a case in the consumer court. The attitude of the people in the office too is very pompous.They behave as if theyare PNC MENON. What started off as a world class product, was reduced to a sham in a very short time, only because of the jokers employed by mr.menon. Im m sure mr. memon himself is not aware of thegoing on in his company.maybe the fast crashing share price will force him to sit upand take note
A disgruntled Sobha Customer
Apr 13, 2009 04:54 PM Read

Like everyone else, even I am a disgruntled Sobha Customer. Had I known that they would turn out like this, I would have never given them a single cent. Below is the summary of my experience with them.

Booked an apartment in one of Sobha's Project during November 2006. I was told that the delivery would be sometime during mid 2008. Its now April 2009, but till date there is no final word about handover. They have extended this for about 3 times already now.

Initially due to bank loan and other formalities, my payment was delayed for about 3 days. Just 3 days only, and those crooks charged me an interest @ 24% p.a. Seriously I never expected they would do that. But then it was ok. It was written in their agreement that they would do so, so I was fine with it. After that their CRM use to send me monthly reports by email with photos. But then sometime in Feb 2008, even that stopped. They stopped sending monthly updates and they informed me saying that they would be

sending quarterly updates instead. Again, I didn't really have much say in all this, so I just took everything they threw at me. Till date they have now almost collected 90% of the amount of the house. As per the agreement, they were suppose to pay me Rs.10, 000 monthly compensation in case there is any delay beyond Feb 2009. Now this period is also after 6 months of grace. So effectively they were suppose to complete the project by Aug 2008. Now when I ask them about the compensation, their CRM informs me that all of it will be settled during the final handover.

Even at my end, I need to do some fair bit of financial planning to cough out the final extra cash that would be needed during the hanbover. But, Sobha's CRM just refuses to tell me any average figure. I have some serious suspicions that in the end, they might just add some arbitrary charges and set everything off against it and finally I will have to pay for everything. Already this delay of more than a year has effectively costed me around Rs.10 lacs I dont know whats going to come up next.

Some points I would like to summarize:



  1. Sobha is NOT transparent in their dealings with their customers. They arbitrarily include many charges for which there is absolutely no justification or reason. They collect 3 times or even 4 times the actual charges that Sobha incurs for Electricity, Water and etc. The worst is the lawyer fees, if you notice, they charge anywhere between Rs.10000 to Rs.30000 as legal fees. Comeon, which lawyer in India charges that much money to draft simple agreements? Even in the US lawyers are not so expensive.



  2. Sobha projects are always delayed. So my suggestion to prospective buyers would be to buy only completed flats and never to buy if its incomplete. I repeat, completed means, should be ready to move in. There is a huge difference between completed flats and flats ready to move in.



  3. Sobha Agreements are insanely one sided. I have never seen such agreements anywhere. They are not meant to protect the customer, but to kill the customer. Initally the sales guy might give you many sweet talks, but make sure you read the fine lines in the agreement.



  4. The main reason why people choose developers like Sobha is because of their so called customer satisfaction, transparency and reliability. Where as now, all of these are simply defeated. So you pay a premium not for these extra services, but to get yourself into an never ending trap.



  5. Personally the reason why I chose Sobha and agreed to pay a premium for their apartment, is only for one reason - their commitment to its customers. But now all of that is just broken. If we had to deal with so much issues, then why should we pay premium for their houses?



  6. Quality of their houses - Well I haven't owned any. So I cant comment. But I have read other people's comments here, so I can safelt assume that its not so great. Its pretty similar to what anyone else would give you.





My Ratings:

Sobha developers - Transparent in dealing : 2 / 10

Sobha developers - Customer Service : 2 / 10 (repeatedly write emails to get one word reply from them)

Sobha developers - In keeping its promises : 0 / 10

A disgruntled sobha customer.
Sobha sucks big time
Apr 07, 2009 03:13 PM Read

Please beware of all the lovely reviews being posted about sobha on this site. They are nothing but poorly disguised marketing yarns to trap you. Remember once you sign on the dotted line that sobha sales guy who sold you your "dream home" will not even pick up your calls.

I would highly recommend that you avoid sobha. I wish I had taken the advice of a friend before I made this booking. Never mind the nearly 3 year delay for the sobha daffodil project or the constant misleading statements that their CRM dept. makes. They are not the "A" grade builders that they advertise. Even in good times they take customers for a ride but now since they are heavily in debt they milk their customers dry. Consider this that even after paying 80, 000 extra for water and electricity post agreement they are now demanding we pay another~2 lakhs or else no handover. They are also refusing to refund the service tax that government has rescinded stating that they have already made the payments but at the same time are unwilling to provide any receipts. If you are late in making a payment by a single date their ever vigilant finance dept will gleefully impose fines and penalties on you by the thousands but they are delayed by 3 years and you will be lucky to get a paltry sum if at all. Once you sign on the dottled line be prepared for a long list of surprises.
Sobha Daffodil
Mar 29, 2009 10:37 AM Read

Sobha team and brand is not the same what it was 3 years ago. We bought Sobha Daffodill in HSR Layout, Bangalore in September 2006. The delivery date was March 2008 and it has been delayed to November 2009.

Sobha has not made any effort to expedite the project, rather they are fooling new buyers by offering crazy schemes like "3bhk at 40% discount, occupation by May 2009". Please do not fall in the Sobha trap, as once you sign the contract and pay money, the builder will take you for a ride.

Sobha is continously sending us project getting late information. Every time they say the project will be ready in next 3 months, and as a buyer you should start tplanning the interiors, shifting etc. However, just 15 days to the handover they send you a communication that the project is further delayed by 3-6 months. Reason - downturn in the market & they are having cash problems.

Below is an exceprt from their official communication "We regret to inform you that due to the unexpected slowdown, liquidity and financial crunch, the construction work of Sobha Daffodil slowed down over the past 3 to 4 months. We are sure you will understand the situation that we are in; we request you to bear with us for this additional delay and sincerely apologize for it.

Commencement for handover of the apartments for interiors will start now wef 30th Nov '09. Please do understand that the apartment will be handed over for interiors only.If in their existing projects, if they are having cash problems, how can they start other projects and commit delivey by May 2009. It is nothing but plain cheating and fradulent activity.The Sobha brand name is no more. They are here to cheat innocent people.

Sri Ram
Sobha Moonstone -- Bad experience
Feb 14, 2009 08:07 AM Read

I have paid advance in 2006 for Sobha Moonstone with a promise from builder that permissions would come in 2 to 3 months. At last permission has come in the month of Feb 2008. At the time of sale agreement down payment of 25% is made.

Even after one year construction has not started. There is no communication from the builder. Whenever you reach CRM they say "Construction will start very soon". Huge amount of Pre EMI money is lost in this game. Construction is delayed by at least 2 years as of today. Risks with this builder:1)

Construction agreement is one sided. One particular clause which says "If you modify the apartment builder is not liable for any penality charges for delay". Technically the project can be delayed for ever but till if you changed your flooring from Vetrified tiles to granite Sobha is never liable for any payments.2) Lack of communication:

Once booking amount is paid they will never contact you again. You are at their mercy3) Escalation Mechanism: They dont understand nor respect any escalations. 4) Penality clauses: On cancellation of either parties fault you will lose 25% during booking time and 5% on total construction cost of the apartment (Not on the money you paid so far, total construction cost)5)

For any reason if they are unable to build only option is to move to some other apartment, you will never get back money. You can join https://groups.google.com/group/sobha-moonstone google groups.
Sobha - Highly over-rated builder
Jan 28, 2009 05:12 PM Read

I fully agree with all the comments made in other reviews. In today's times of economic turmoil, It is better to go for a readily available apartment than to wait for eternity to get one completed. However if you choose to go for Sobha and that too one being still completed, then these are the things that you need to be aware of -



  • Sobha will make sure that all the terms and conditions are in their favour



  • Any modifications that you ask Sobha to execute, they will botch these up big time. However, they will charge you a bomb for these modifications



  • Payment is linked to completed floors. Hence to get money as fast as possible, they just keep on raising floors without completing the apartments on the floor. Once the entire payment is made, they take their sweet time to complete the project



  • Their Service team comprises immature folks who do not know how to interact with customers. The turnover of these folks and Sales guys is very high. So you don't know whom to talk to if anything goes wrong - Believe me a lot of financial stuff goes wrong and no coincidence that this is always in Sobha's favour



  • Sobha is well known for delays in handing over projects. Average is more than a year!



  • They will not leave any stone unturned in extracting as much money as possible through heads like VAT, Service tax, BWSSB, KEB and Registration. They do not produce any receipts as proofs of payments made. Nor will they show any proofs when they decide to hike these charges arbitrarily



  • The top management is completely unapproachable. Mails and calls will go unanswered


Sobha Rules always
Dec 26, 2008 11:17 PM Read

Beware Sobha is a tough nut to crack. Sobha will dictate the terms and condition before sale and after sale. The terms and condition can change any time as per sobha's requirement and benefit. Being a customer you will always have to feel helpless. They may show you charges which you may not have agreed when you have signed the contract. The delivery dates changes without notice. Sobha will always give you some reason which may not be acceptable but need be accepted.

This builder is so powerful and adament they the customer will be helpless very helpless. You may be having a same feeling and frustration as if you are dealing with some autocratic. Sobha has built their reputation over years and that reputation may not be true today. I am not sure if other builders act the same so if you are dealing with any please beaware. Compensation clauses changes without notice if Sobha wishes so. I dont know what these clauses mean legally and why they are in contract.

Please tell me if you are customer of Daffodil or you know somebody who is customer of Daffodil project
Extremely horrible quality by cheats
Dec 23, 2008 03:52 PM Read

Sobha is a cheat who charges high rates but gives extremely poor quality houses. Classic case is sobha jasmine which was positioned as a high end super luxury apartment but is a low quality place.

The developer has not done the roads, the boundary wall has fallen, the tennis court has been left incomplete and the landscaping has not been done. More than that, they have handed over possession without any fire fighting system in place. Inspite of repeated reminders they have done nothing . I wish the court sends the expat menon to jail for cheating people..maybe he is a al quieda terrorist.

The approach road has not been done and the entrance to the blocks is still not complete. I wish their was a consumer protection forum which could de-certify them based on poor quality and delivery.

They have also not given back deposit money of the other apartments as they seem to have eaten all that money
Blue coller cheaters-no ethics-robbers
Oct 17, 2008 08:43 PM Read

Not all companies maintain their reputation. Sobha developers belong to those kinds of firms who leverage the reputation they earned in the past for profiteering. The place where I booked(Sobha Iris), they delayed the handover by 2 years, on top of it they haven’t paid any penalty . They cited a reason saying we selected non standard tiles for bath rooms.

We have paid 42K per month as pre-emi for extra 2 years, just calculate the kind of cost escalation.

Thats not cheating anyway, believe me. the fun started later: They suddenly tripled water connection charges, doubled electricity connection charges, they intimated this when we are about to register the Flat. We believed in Sobhas lie that the connection charges have gone-up, more over we were in Hurry to finish the registration and get the posession as it delayed nearly 2 years. They havent given any bills for those connection chanrges inspite of several people demanding for it. Later one Gentleman from our owner Association went to Water Board & Electicity Board and collected all the information via RTI(RIght to Information Act). We found Sobha lied to us and charged 3 time and 2 times more for Water and Electricity connections, they made 8 crores just like that.

People are in wrong impression that sobha gives high quality; I did not find it in reality. The floor tiles they laid are at uneven level. Even after complains they rectified few highly uneven tiles but rest left as it is. Water wes leaking in our bath room from top on the day of handover. There is one block where the Sewage pipe which runs through the whole block ruptured. Sobha means Substandard

Looks like the management is very greedy, they offer less salaries and wages to the employees and laborers. So they are not able to retain people. Huge attrition.
Sobha Developer - A Big Cheat
Oct 10, 2008 09:49 AM Read

I fell prey to the supposedly good name of Sobha Developers, and some good references. I booked a flat in Petunia and paid the booking amount. They took several months to provide all the project papers. Their agreement is very one sided. It says they can change the clauses at will without any discussion. There are no milestones that they are obligated to meet for future payments to be made. The penalties for delays on their side are very weak. I questioned all of these several times and had numerous discussions. They just don't listen - their expectation is for the customer to fall in line.

My way or the highway. Very arrogant. CRM team is spineless. When I refused to make future payments till the issues are resolved, they expected me to pay huge fines even though there was no agreement to that effect. When I objected, they prompted canceled the booking and have withheld the booking amount. I am now fighting to get the amount back.

I wouldn't recommend Sobha Developers to anyway, ever.
Let's Hit Back at Sobha
Aug 01, 2008 02:24 PM Read

I am pissed off with Sobha and unfortunately never read any of these websites before paying them for the apartment. I had booked an apptt at Sobha Carnation, Outer Ring Road. Every Blog is cursing them but there seems to be no impact on these guys.

From increasing club house fees, to never-ending delays in the project, to false promises by the sales team on accomodating payments, to them refusing to even honor promises given in writing thru their official email id, it's way too much beyond my patience and tolerance now.

I wish to now go to consumer court as any other court would simply cost too much money and hold their one-sided agreement as binding. It’s crazy that a public listed company can get away by cheating highly literate / educated people like us.

If u r keen to join me or support me with all evidence to build my case, please email me at chiranjiv@yahoo.com
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